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Assault Q&A
Q: Do power weapons other than a power fist have any increased effect on vehicles? A: No. Power weapons only have bonus affects against things with armour saving throws. Q: For determining the results of close combat, do models that were not in contact (or for that matter not even within 2") count for "outnumbering" the loser? Example: 1 Ork in mega armor and a mob of 30 Gretchin assault 5 Eldar. The Ork contacts 4 Eldar models (hey, it could happen), but only one Gretchin manages to make it into contact, with one other being 2" away from an Eldar model. If the Eldar kill 2 Gretchin but not the Ork, and the Ork kills 3 Eldar, are the Eldar outnumbered (and by quite a margin!) or not (seeing as now the Ork is the only model in contact with Eldar)? A: Yes. Outnumbering is done on a unit vs unit basis, so even if one model from each unit is fighting, they'll get the benefit of all their buddies backing them up when it comes to intimidating the opposition. Likewise if the models actually fighting are killed but there are a million more of them in the unit, they'll still outnumber the unit they were fighting. Q: When determining if a side is outnumbered, is it worked out on a squad for squad basis or as a whole per side? Example: I have five 5 man squads assaulting three 10 man squads and a dreadnought and the whole thing is all intermingled, do I outnumber the "side" with 31 models if I win with my "side" of 25 models? A: Work it out as whole sides, just like totaling up wounds inflicted in multiple combats (p69). In this case, the losing side (with 31 models) is not outnumbered. Q:When a model is moving in to assault, can it pass "through" other models, friend or foe, to get into base to base contact, or must it move around interposing models to get around to a spot where he can contact the enemy's base? Here's a diagram to illustrate what the question asks: e E e X,A, & B = friendly
models Can model C go "though" B and A to hit model E, (since if he goes around he may not get into base contact)? A: He would have to go around and engage the closest unengaged enemy model via the shortest possible route - e rather than E. It pays, therefor, to consider the order of your assaults! Q: The book states that in an assault, models more than 2" away from the enemy can only be removed as casualties once all the models in base contact and all models within 2" of an enemy have been removed. This can lead to an interesting situation that seems to not be covered. Example: Let's say that a squad of 9 Chaos Veterans and character in Terminator armor are assaulted by some Orks. The character and three Veterans are contacted, each being touched by one Ork. The Orks do quite well and manage to inflict 5 unsaved wounds on Veterans. The character in Terminator armor is unscathed. According to what is written, only two Veterans are removed since the Terminator is still in contact, thus precluding the removal of any models more than 2" away from the attackers. A: All the models within 2" of the attackers (not just in base contact) would be potential casualties even if the Terminator survives. Q: Models within 2" of the enemy are allowed to fight in close combat, getting just one attack. Does this one attack have to be made against one the enemy models he is within 2" of? A: Yes. Q: If an attacker is within 2" of two different models with varying skills and/or abilities, does he get to pick which to attack? A: He would be able to pick a target with the same restrictions as someone in base to base contact. Q: Under shooting, it says that models with multiple wounds are removed once the squad takes enough wounds to eliminate one whole model. Does the same apply in hand to hand? Example: 3 Nurglings fight one on one, against 3 Marines. Each Marine does one wound on his stand of Nurglings before the Nurglings get to attack. a) Does one stand go away? A: Yes. How the wounds are suffered makes no difference, the same rule applies (note that the rule doesn't specify shooting as the source of the wounds, just wounds suffered). Q: b) If one is removed, does the (in this case) Nurgle player get to pick which one? A: Yes, standard rules apply. Q: c) If the Nurglings were facing off against a Marine Captain, a normal Marine, and a Techmarine instead of just three marines, could the Chaos player remove the Nurgling facing the normal Marine so that other two can still be fought? Because there are different weapon skills involved, and there were different to hit rolls, it would seem odd to remove just any old Nurgling. A: The Chaos player would get to remove the stand he wants, except that characters can always force the actual model they are touching to be removed as a casualty. Q: Do models that are not in base contact in an assault get to use their special combat rules and/or weapons for that one attack the get? A: P66 "In all cases models can only use their special attacks if they are in base to base contact with the enemy" Q: Example: There are five Striking Scorpions being attacked, one on one, by 5 Marines. Directly behind each Scorpion is a Banshee. None of the Banshees are in contact with anything, but they are all within 2" of a Marine (one each). The Marines charged. Do the Banshees attack first (if at all, seeing as how no one in their squad was in contact)? A: Strictly speaking they do not fight at all as the Banshee unit is not engaged in close combat by the enemy. Just to make things clear, in order to take part in an assault, at least one model from the unit must be in base to base contact with an enemy model. Just being within 2" of an enemy model is not enough. This means that a teleporting terminator unit can never be involved in an assault on the turn it lands. It also means that a unit which launches an assault into difficult terrain may end up not making contact, in which case no combat will take place (though the charging unit will still get to make its move). It is also worth noting that the only reason the banshees did not get to use their masks in this example is that none of them were in combat, therefore the squad was not in combat. If any Banshee had been in contact then the special rules for a Banshee Mask would have taken effect. Even though models must be in actual contact to use special weapons and rules, the Banshees are a stated exception with their masks. As an aside, originally Deep Strikers were allowed to assault when they landed, but playtesting showed that this just made them too powerful, especially in the case of Terminators. As a general principle we've tried to make sure that elite or special troops are useful, but not overpowering, and keeping a lid on special rules such as infiltration and deep strike was one way we went about this. Q: A unit (Marines) has some members who reached the enemy (Orks), and an assault was fought. They won, but the enemy passed their Ld test, so it wound up a Drawn Combat. Both units moved up unengaged models (up to 6"), but even with that far a move both units wound up with models not engaged with the enemy. a) Could the unengaged Orks shoot at the unengaged Marines from the unit? A: No they can't. Units shoot at units in 40K, and you can't shoot at a target in close combat. Q: b) Could the same Orks shoot at another marine squad? A: Yes they could. Q: Unit A (Marines) wins a combat, and Unit B (Orks) rolls, say, an 8 to flee. Five inches behind them is a friendly unit C (Gretchin). The Marines elect to pursue, and roll a 10. Do they still run down the Orks, as they did indeed roll higher than the enemy, or do they smack into the Gretchin & the Orks escape behind the Grots? Is it a simple matter of if you roll higher to pursue than the enemy rolled to flee, then they are destroyed, and the pursuers engage fresh enemy if they ran into them? A: The Orks are destroyed, and then you make a sweeping advance into the Gretchin. Beating the score "represents the victors shooting the enemy down as they retreat, scattering them beyond recover..." so you don't actually have to catch up with the enemy models, just speed them on their way, as it were. Whether you are run down or not is always based on the dice roll not the distance moved. *However*, if you move through difficult terrain the *dice roll* is halved. Q: Unit A is fighting Unit B, and Unit A wins. The combat is arranged as illustrated: BBBBBBB AAAAAAA --------------- unit B's table edge Unit B rolls to fall back, and Unit A pursues. A rolls a lower number than B, but since B had to go through A to measure distance to their table edge, A winds up touching B after measuring it out. - Is Unit B still run down, as they wind up with A running them down by measurement? - Or is B still OK, as A did not roll a higher number? And place the models say an inch away from each other? Bottom line - are you run down if you roll higher, or if you wind up touching, or both? A: You are only run down if the opponent rolls higher. If you roll equal to or less than their score, they get away, and you can't move into contact with them. Stop 1" away from them if the move would normally bring you into contact. Q: This next question revolves around a single rules concept. The question is based on the following quotes: Quote 1: p63, "Each model base-to-base with an enemy strikes...." Quote 2: p63, "Models not touching an enemy, but within 2" of one, may make one Attack..." (this does not state that the attack must be against the specific enemy the model is near) Quote 3: p64, "The dice roll needed depends on the relative Weapon Skills (WS) of the attacker and his foe." Quote 4: p64, "Where large numbers of combatants have the same characteristics it is often convenient to roll for their attacks together. Since all of the Space Marines need the same roll to hit and the same roll to wound you may as well roll them together and then allow the Eldar player to allocate the hits..." Quote 5: p64, "Ordinarily we simply assume that the warrior is contributing his shots and blows to the swirling combat going on. This means we don't have to worry about whether individual models strike their respective opponents in base contact. However, if a model is in base contact with models with varying Weapon Skill and Toughness, it will be necessary to allocate attacks to different targets..." Quote 6: p65, "...cross reference the attacker's Strength characteristic (S) with the defender's Toughness (T)..." Quote 7: p65, "Models struck and wounded in close combat can attempt an armour save..." Quote 8: p66, "Casualties must be removed from the models in base contact with the enemy first, then from models that are fighting near the enemy (ie within 2"). Casualties can only be carried over onto models more than 2" from an enemy where all other models have been slain." Quote 9: p66, "...it's generally assumed that players will roll all attacks of the same Initiative value together...However, if both players agree you can resolve attacks model by model. In this case simply remove casualties as they occur." Given the above quotes, some odd things can happen. Here is the question: A Bloodthirster and 3 Bloodletters are lined up one on one each against 4 Terminators with Power Fists. For whatever reason the Chaos player has bad rolls and the Terminators get to attack having taken no losses. The Terminators roll to hit against the opponents they each are touching (quote 3 "his foe"). Because the Bloodthirster has a different WS and T score, the Terminator touching him must roll his attacks separately from his brothers' (quote 5). The Bloodthirster takes one hit and one Bloodletter is hit. A roll to wound is made against each respective model (quote 6). Not surprisingly they both wound. The Bloodletter fails the save and so does the Bloodthirster (so much for Invulnerable!). Both took their save individually as directed by quote 7. The Bloodthirster was down to one wound left as a result of some previous action. This would seem to make for one dead Bloodletter and one dead Bloodthirster. Yea for the Marines! However, the Chaos player calmly picks up two Bloodletters instead. He as done exactly what he is instructed to do by quote 8. He has removed casualties from models in contact. The rulebook makes no statement along the lines of "casualties must be removed from models in contact with the model that inflicted the wound." Understandably, the Marine player gets upset. He says that his guy was touching the Bloodthirster so he got to attack him (quote 1), he rolled against the Bloodthirster's WS (quote 3), rolled against his Toughness (quote 6), and got past the Bloodthirster's Invulnerable save (quote 7). He feels that the wound should go on the Bloodthirster and asks to be allowed to specify that the attack is worked out on the Bloodthirster. The Chaos player says no, that the Marine player was not touching models of different WS _and_ T (as required to designate an attack by quote 5 " if a model is in contact with..."), and so has no right to specify the Bloodthirster as the victim of the attack, even though the attack was worked out against it. The Marine player then claims the book says he has the right to work out his attacks one model at a time and remove casualties as he goes. The Chaos player pulls out quote 9 and says he does not agree to play that way and would prefer to play the recommended way. He goes on to say that even if he did them one at a time, he could still remove the Bloodletter since quote 9 does not change from where casualties are removed. A: You've hit on something which can be a bit confusing at first but its easier to understand if you remember the rules explain fairly simple combats between two units of basic models. In situations where you get opposing forces with different statlines (not just WS & T---Ed.) the easiest thing is to think of each group of models with different statlines as a separate unit. So for example you're fighting an Ork bodyguard comprising a Warboss plus some Gretchin and Nobz. In terms of allocating attacks and taking casualties the Warboss is a unit, Nobz are another unit and the Gretchin are a third unit, even though ordinarily they make up a single unit in game terms. Attacks allocated against the Gretchin unit roll to hit and wound vs the Gretchin statlines, and casualties must be taken from amongst the Grots, likewise for attacks against the Nobz and the Warboss. Characters of any kind also count as a separate unit in close combat even if they are nominally part of a squad (i.e. veteran sergeants). So if a model is in base contact with several enemy 'units' it could allocate attacks against either of them. It is the same for a model within 2" of several enemy units. The allocated attacks will be worked out against the appropriate unit and casualties are taken from there. This broadens the concept of allocating attacks considerably, but works from a principle that is already established in the rules. Note that models with different weapons in a squad (heavy weapons troopers for example), are still just normal models of that unit type, not Characters or "models with different statlines." This means that they can be left in preference to other models being removed unless a character in contact with them attacked and allocated his attacks onto those models. Q: Do you calculate the outnumbering ratio before or after casualties are inflicted? A: All morale check modifiers are based on the situation at the time the test is taken. Q: When the unengaged models move in to help their comrades under the "Partial Contact" rule, do they count the +1 attack for charging? A: No. Q: When a successful assaulting squad makes a sweeping advance, can only the squad that is being assaulted shoot at the squad making the sweeping advance, or can any squad shoot at the squad making the sweeping advance? A: Any squad with line of sight and range to the target can shoot. Q: How do you resolve blast markers and template weapons against a squad making a sweeping advance? A: Use the normal rules. Q: What happens to the models that are in base-to-base contact that are hit by blast markers and template weapons? Does it only affect the actual models covered by the template/blast marker, or does it extend to models they are in base to base contact with? A: Only models under the template will be effected, be they friend or foe. Q: When firing on a Sweeping Advance, do the rule that allows blast markers to be moved allow them to be moved over enemy troops as long as the blast marker covers the same number of sweeping advancing models? A: Yes. Q: The "Partial Contact" rule on page 68 makes it clear that models which remain stationary to use rapid fire or heavy weapons cannot join their comrades in the assault. Does this mean that models which are charged in a sweeping advance may not fire their weapons as if they had been stationary (and therefore count as if they had moved during the movement phase for the purposes of determining how their weapons fire during the shooting phase)? A: No. The models can use their weapons as long as they don't move (and if armed with bolters they could rapid fire). Q: When making an advance after wiping out the enemy, do you have to advance towards the closest enemy? A: That is the intention, yes, though it's not strictly what the rule says. Q: If I have a squad partially in base to base contact, and they have failed a barrage pinning test, do the unengaged models still move into combat? A: No. Q: May a fearless creature voluntarily fall back? A: Yes. Please keep in mind that voluntary fall back is not a standard rule. As pointed out in the Ultimate Secrets of the Galaxy Revealed section of the Rulebook allowing voluntary fallback can significantly alter the balance of the game for the worse. If you are allowing this rule to be used, then yes, Fearless models could use it. This is a good reason not to use the rule in and of itself! Q: When a unit has outnumbered a unit it is in close combat with and engulfed it (surrounded it), can the models that are supporting the combat (with in 2") move away on their turn and shoot at other targets, then be drawn back into the conflict with drawn combat movement? Or are they "locked in combat"? A: This has never been an issue for us, which leads me to think people are trying to squeeze too much out of their units. I would say count them as locked in combat. Q: Is it correct that all grenade types such as frag and plasma are only ever used when the unit possessing them is assaulting? In other words, if they are being assaulted by a unit in cover (i.e. unit with Stormcaller cast on it) the grenades are not used, correct? A: No, they count against opponents who are counting the advantage of cover whether attacking or defending. Q: In an Assault, the loser falls back through difficult terrain (and thus halves their dice roll). The winner can ignore difficult terrain for whatever reason (or the loser is in Mega Armor perhaps) - either way, the winner isn't halving their score. The loser rolls higher than the winner, but because of the difficult terrain actually moves less and the winner moves farther. Would the loser still be wiped out? Example - Loser rolls an total of 12, cut in two gives a 6 so they move 6 inches. Winner rolls a 9, so moves 9 inches, running through the losing unit. Rulebook says go with the score on the roll, but is this a case where the score isn't what was rolled but instead the halved roll? Same question could apply for a winner rolling higher but moving less than the loser due to terrain - reversed situation. A: Bit of an odd one this, but looking at the wording and thinking off keeping it clear makes me think that for pursuit purposes its the score on the dice that's relevant, not the modified move distance. This can lead to an odd situation where pursuers overtake their prey but don't kill them off, but this can be imagined to be due to losing them in the difficult terrain, bouncing off their thick armour or whatever. Such pursuing models couldn't be placed within 1" as normal in the movement phase. Q: If a unit is broken in hth and falls back into a unit that is currently still in hth how do you resolve their move. Do they stop 1 inch from the fighting unit? Do they try and 'work their way around' if they can in the fall back corridor? Would the fall back corridor change? The rules are pretty clear that they aren't destroyed through crossfire but not on what happens to them. A: Hmm, I'd gues that you should treat the melee as a piece of impassable terrain and bend the fall back corridor around it.
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